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Discussion in 'Archives' started by Tbitt, Jan 27, 2009.
The video was laggy as hell. Do they have ownership of the mom dogs? I don't know why they didn't keep it on the down low and just start spaying left and right.
That's disgusting. Looks like they're are too far preggo to spay. People suck.
Okay, this is horrible, and puppy mills should all be shut down. However, what is the difference between these pregnant dogs and the ones that are often advertised on this forum? It looked to me as if these were purebred dogs too. Off my soapbox. Sabella Rush
I think the number of rescues and dogs in need on this forum FAR outweighs any ads for Pups for sale.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with breeding dogs. Puppy mills are pure evil, but if every dog were the product of responsible breeders producing quality animals, we'd be much better off. Just my :th_2cents:
Sabella, I'm answering this question only to voice my opnion, not to pick at you.
I think there is a BIG difference.
Private breeders care for their breeders A LOT better then puppy millers do.
Private breeders have a few select breeding dogs (2-10), and puppy millers have much much more (50-100) breeding pairs!
Private breeders have more of their offspring fully vetted than Puppy millers - Puppy millers have almost NONE of their dogs betted.
Private breeders tend to not let a puppy go to their new homes until they are 6-8 weeks - Puppy millers let them be taken at 2-3 weeks old.........
To me - private breeders are much much different.........
There is also a world of people out there that will not get a dog from a rescue because of unknown background and diseases. I do not think those people should be excluded from owning animals. I think it's one's choice. Hopefully a wise informed choice.
Puppy mills should all burn in hell. A lot of breeders should burn in hell too. But a lot are breding quality healthy puppies and I have no problems with that.
Sorry- gotta add a few thoughts.... I do understand your point, Sabella and while I do have issue with people who breed for the wrong reasons, or no reason at all, I have alot of respect for the people who are doing it right. We should probably be asking the following from anyone that wants to sell/place a dog....
A concientious breeder will take back any of their dogs, at any point in the dogs' lives, if the owner chooses to give it up for some reason. I have never heard of a miller doing the same. :- (It is actually a clause in the contract that I signed with my breeder. My dog HAS to go back to her if I can't keep him.)
A concientious breeder can keep track of the whereabouts of their dogs' offspring. <Not saying that they all do, but the tools are usually there> Can't imagine a miller being able to track a litter after it leaves the farm. :-
A concientious breeder will volunteer or even RUN a rescue for their breed, making sure that dogs don't fall thru the cracks.
A concientious breeder will even HELP with the rescue of dogs from puppymills, regardless of breed- either fostering, driving, or helping to place, etc. Won't ever see a miller doing the same.
A concientious breeder's involvement isn't driven by the idea of profit. A concientious breeder KNOWS that by the time a puppy leaves with it's new owner, the breeder has actually made very little (if any) real profit....after vetting, health checks, vaccinations, etc. etc.
A concientious breeder's contracts will stipulate mandatory spaying/neutering, vet care and vacc schedule and AKC papers may even be a limited registration. Do millers ever consider any of this?
I dont see anything shocking about that.
Puppy mills are in business to shuck out puppies.
Even with this type of exposure, there will still be people buying up those puppy mill puppies from the pet stores.
You and I see these stories.. the rest of the world doesnt.
I can not believe the number of locals who are buying puppies from our local pet stores. When I ask them where the puppies come from.. they reply to me.
"I asked at the store and they told me they only buy puppies from LOCAL breeders."
Then I tell them.. that LOCAL breeders are .. Iowa.. Missouri... Kansas..
oh.. and I charge extra to groom pet store dogs.
A Letter from a Shelter Manager
I think our society needs a huge "Wake-up" call. As a shelter manager, I am going to share a little insight with you all...a view from the inside if you will.
First off, all of you breeders/sellers should be made to work in the "back" of an animal shelter for just one day. Maybe if you saw the life drain from a few sad,
lost, confused eyes, you would change your mind about breeding and selling to people you don't even know.
That puppy you just sold will most likely end up in my shelter when it's not a cute little puppy anymore. So how would you feel if you knew that there's about a 90% chance that dog will never walk out of the shelter it is going to be dumped at? Purebred or not! About 50% of all of the dogs that are "owner surrenders" or "strays," that come into my shelter are purebred dogs.
The most common excuses I hear are; "We are moving and we can't take our dog (or cat)." Really? Where are you moving to that doesn't allow pets? Or they say "The dog got bigger than we thought it would." How big did you think a German Shepherd would get? "We don't have time for her." Really? I work a 10-12 hour day and still have time for my 6 dogs! "She's tearing up our yard." How about making her a part of your family? They always tell me "We just don't want to have to stress about finding a place for her we know she'll get adopted, she's a good dog".
Odds are your pet won't get adopted & how stressful do you think being in a shelter is? Well, let me tell you, your pet has 72 hours to find a new family from the moment you drop it off. Sometimes a little longer if the shelter isn't full and your dog manages to stay completely healthy. If it sniffles, it dies. Your pet will be confined to a small run/kennel in a room with about 25 other barking or crying animals. It will have to relieve itself where it eats and sleeps. It will be depressed and it will cry constantly for the family that abandoned it. If your pet is lucky, I will have enough volunteers in that day to take him/her for a walk. If I don't, your pet won't get any attention besides having a bowl of food slid under the kennel door and the waste sprayed out of its pen with a high-powered hose. If your dog is big, black or any of the "Bully" breeds (pit bull, rottie, mastiff, etc) it was pretty much dead when you walked it through the front door.
Those dogs just don't get adopted. It doesn't matter how 'sweet' or 'well behaved' they are.
If your dog doesn't get adopted within its 72 hours and the shelter is full, it will be destroyed. If the shelter isn't full and your dog is good enough, and of a
desirable enough breed it may get a stay of execution, but not for long. Most dogs get very kennel protective after about a week and are destroyed for showing aggression. Even the sweetest dogs will turn in this environment. If your pet makes it over all of those hurdles chances are it will get kennel cough or an upper respiratory infection and will be destroyed because shelters just don't have the funds to pay for even a $100 treatment.
Here's a little euthanasia 101 for those of you that have never witnessed a perfectly healthy, scared animal being "put-down."
First, your pet will be taken from its kennel on a leash. They always look like they think they are going for a walk happy, wagging their tails. Until they get to "The Room," every one of them freaks out and puts on the brakes when we get to the door. It must smell like death or they can feel the sad souls that are left in there, it's strange, but it happens with every one of them. Your dog or cat will be restrained, held down by 1 or 2 vet techs depending on the size and how freaked out they are. Then a euthanasia tech or a vet will start the process. They will find a vein in the front leg and inject a lethal dose of the "pink stuff." Hopefully your pet doesn't panic from being restrained and jerk. I've seen the needles tear out of a leg and been covered with the resulting blood
and been deafened by the yelps and screams. They all don't just "go to sleep," sometimes they spasm for a while, gasp for air and defecate on themselves.
When it all ends, your pets corpse will be stacked like firewood in a large freezer in the back with all of the other animals that were killed waiting to be picked up like garbage. What happens next? Cremated? Taken to the dump? Rendered into pet food? You'll never know and it probably won't even cross your mind. It was just an animal and you can always buy another one, right?
I hope that those of you that have read this are bawling your eyes out and can't get the pictures out of your head I deal with everyday on the way home from work.
I hate my job, I hate that it exists & I hate that it will always be there unless you people make some changes and realize that the lives you are affecting go much farther than the pets you dump at a shelter.
Between 9 and 11 MILLION animals die every year in shelters and only you can stop it. I do my best to save every life I can but rescues are always full, and there are more animals coming in everyday than there are homes.
My point to all of this DON'T BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER PETS DIE!
Hate me if you want to. The truth hurts and reality is what it is. I just hope I maybe changed one persons mind about breeding their dog, taking their loving pet to a shelter, or buying a dog. I hope that someone will walk into my shelter and say "I saw this and it made me want to adopt."
THAT WOULD MAKE IT WORTH IT!!!
I spent a whole summer working in the local shelter and unless you have held the dogs while they are pts you cannot have a clue. Sabella Rush
Sweet- raise your hand if you are clueless, everyone. :-
While I agree with everything that has been said pretty much I am going to play devil's advocate here a little and add my :th_2cents:
Last year I tried to adopt/rescue a dog. I went to 3 area shelters and contacted 2 rescues (2 different breeds). I was DENIED by all of them! The reasons were (in no particular order):
1. I did not have a yard, I live in a condo. Never bothered to ask me how I planned on giving my dog exercise, if I would walk it and take it to play in the park - nope - no yard, no dog!!
2. I have a job, so therefore I would be gone for long periods of time leaving the dog all alone. My take on this one is that the fact that I work all day so can afford to feed and properly vet my pet is not important - it is more important to sit next to that dog all day and let it starve.
Obviously I had to look for another alternative to find a dog. I did not go to a pet store because I believe most puppies at stores come from puppy mills and that is just keeping puppy mills going. Instead I did some research and found a breeder in the area of (yes I will say it) designer puppies. I went there twice and checked out the place and she gave me a long list of references to call. I also liked the fact that while I was there another customer was there and it was the 3rd dog they had purchased from this woman.
Needless to say in theend it all worked out I got a pet that I love and have completly spoiled. But in my opinion if these rescues and other agencies want to place more animals then they pts then maybe they should re-think their adoption criteria.
Hey Horseless . . . I feel your pain and am sorry you had such a rough time adopting. Whereabouts do you live anyway? I know you already have your dog now and are't in the market anymore, but I hate the thought of people getting the idea that all rescues/shelters are that crazy restrictive. For what it's worth, our rescue adopts to people with jobs who live in condos all the time - maybe not a border collie puppy, mind you, but for your average toy breed - sure.
I'm curious what five groups denied you - would you mind PMing me? We're a small group and, more often than not, though I'd love to be able to help everyone who inquires, we only have a handful of dogs at any given time . . . frequently we don't have whatever breed/age/whatever people are looking for. So I refer people to other groups in that case, but I do try to keep a mental list of groups with super restrictive policies - no point referring people to groups that will only deny them, right?
Anyway, I will say this about the breeder/rescue debate. I think a lot of people in shelter/rescue work want to draw the good/bad or responsible/irresponsible line right down the middle with all of rescue on one side and all breeders on the other, as the context of the posted "Letter from a Shelter Manager" suggests. Personally, spending all of my free time doing rescue work and rubbing elbows with a whole bunch or irresponsible idiots there too, it seems to me like you've got good and bad in both worlds.
Incidentally, I have held animals while they were euthanized, and I'll take an ethical, knowledgeable, consciencious breeder who knows their breed, fully vets pups, advocates training, and is willing to take them back if it doesn't work out over a "rescue" with no people skills that either denies three-fourths of their applicants due to unrealistic expectations or one that sends dogs out half-vetted with no follow-up or return policy simply to claim "x" many saved any day. But that's just me.
Very well said