Sporthorse and Sportpony bloodlines -- let's talk

Discussion in 'The Foaling Stall' started by JenR, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. JenR

    JenR Formerly Underworld Queen

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    Yep, you guys too -- WBs and Sporthorses of all stripes and crosses, what are the bloodlines like? Let's chat.

    *and I almost forgot the little guys -- let's talk sport ponies too!

    Come on guys, how about it? I don't want to kick off my own post....so, anybody?
     
  2. burgie

    burgie New Member

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    My mare is by Pablito (Han) out of a Cor Noir mare (Old).
    The girl has talent and spark, but was a MORON till the summer of her five year old year.

    I would say Pablito tends to throw a lot of chrome on his babies. I have also heard that he throws spooky/stupid/hot horses. His sire, Pablo and grand-sire, Pilot are fairly highly regarded. After watching video of both, I would say that the line really does tend to run hot.
     

  3. JenR

    JenR Formerly Underworld Queen

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    Don't be so sure any attitude doesn't come from the Cor Noir. CN was a bit of a "strong minded" fellow, and he threw it to a lot of his foals. The Pablo horses are as a general rule fairly hot, but a bit easier to work with imho, as they aren't at all looking for trouble. I think it's a good cross with some of the older style, heavier mares who can be a bit lethargic. Both lines are well noted for producing jumpers, some have the movement for dressage as well (Cor Noir is a Cor de la Bryere horse -- very powerful with good shoulder freedom usually, made for a lot of talent in jumping and quite a bit of flair in dressage; could be a bit strong minded though, so CN came by it honestly I think).

    The funny thing is, most people think of WBs as being these really quiet horses -- well, some are but some can be quite the handful. Some are very strong headed and some are very reactive (I had a mare once who was Lugano on the bottom side -- very nice horses, very atheletic and tough, but big reactions to rather small stimulus, aiiiyyyeee!). Some of the old A line Hanoverians and the Mahogani (spelling is wrong, but close) Trakheners were a nice balance, and the Matchos and Inschallahs were quite nice horses in my opinion; I liked the Ramiros too. These were lines that were based on French Anglo-Arab and Trak, so lightened up the old heavies and made them a bit more noble, for want of a better word, without going to far into the realm of hotness.

    I also like to see the old TB stallion Waidmannsdansk in a pedigree. The Germans used to say "guaranteed rideablity", and he did put a very trainable trait on his offspring that passed on through generations.
     
  4. burgie

    burgie New Member

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    Hmm...I have been told consistently that Cor Noir babies are slow to develop. That is the first time in which I have heard them referred to as strong minded. My mare has a VERY strong opinion - so perhaps that came from Cor Noir. :D

    My horse's mom was affectionately referred to as a war horse by the barn manager. I understand why they crossed her with Pablito. My mare didn't get her granddad's shoulder movement though!
     
  5. MidnightHill

    MidnightHill New Member

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    Ok - so the Sporthorse thing is a new adventure for me.  While I have ridden plenty of Warmbloods in the past they were usually only in house for a short period of time.  I am currently handling a 2 year old daughter of Ritual who is out of a daughter of Frohwind.  She is a stunning filly but can be stubborn and sometimes retarded (like not wanting to go out the barn door because it is spring) - however when you expect her to be a ding bat she is great.  Odd way of thinking I guess.

    Here is a pic of her just a few weeks ago.


    [​IMG]
     
  6. JenR

    JenR Formerly Underworld Queen

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    Well someone bred her to be interesting :D!

    She has some of my favorite lines all rolled up into one neat little package -- so that should tell you something about her personality ;)

    Ritual is a Ramiro x Der Lowe (Lugano was a Der Lowe) bred horse (with some other stuff coming in on the tail dam line -- I don't know what). Ramiros are nice horses, very athletic, but they are very smart and the ones I've met don't mature very quickly at all (which can get them the bad reputation of being sullen and hard to deal with) -- some I've seen not really hit their full maturity until well over 6 years. They need to be treated accordingly, and realize that often it isn't bad temper of "dumbbloodedness", it's an immature for their age, very smart horse (and by the by -- punish them unfairly for what seems like stupid stuff and you will get a fight -- you will lose, they will remember). The Ramiro line has a strong Anglo-Arab influence, heavy on the Arab...it shows up in their temperments; very nice horses, have a sense of "fair, firm, fun" and let them grow up. They stay around forever and can really be charming horses; charming is a great descriptive. Oh, and the buggers can usually jump really well once they grow up -- a lot of Ramiros don't really get off the ground until they're 8 or so, but they stay going and sound well past other lines. Push them and you have a wreck of a horse.

    Der Lowe/Luganos are just interesting. Much more precocious from what I've seen (mature more like a TB or QH), than the average WB, but interesting personalities -- a lot of people don't like them. They are super athletic, fairly smart, have a lot of heat on tap (for a WB), but they can be accused of stupidity and squirreliness, stubborness, sullen fits... They have BIG reactions to small stimulus and can be very self-willed(spooking is an art form for them -- some of it legitimate, some not so much -- on the bright side, while they can be really good at it, they aren't at all malicious about it, unless you get nasty with them). My horse Al has a strong Der Lowe line in his pedigree. I like them, but they can make life very challenging -- have or get a sense of humor; they have a big one. On the bright side, they are tough and athletic as all hell, and they do like to form bonds with their "special person" as a line; they just like to play jokes on you ;D

    Frohwind is a Furioso horse (don't know what his dam side is) but Furioso is a French TB line. Very confident, hardworking horses. They don't really pose too many issues, but the ones I've seen do have a definate sense of themselves. They aren't "lumps", let's put it that way.

    I think what you have there is a very young (younger than her age if that makes sense) actually not all that stupid or really stubborn, very athletic filly. Try to treat her like you would that child that is a bit of a baby, but who is really smart and maybe not all that willing to play along with behaving all the time. Don't expect mechanical obedience (never met a Der Lowe that would give it) ever, but don't go picking a fight (you'll lose, big time, stay away from fights). "Fun, firm, fair" -- and get the patience of a saint if you don't have it already. Those lines can produce some fantastic horses, really great, but they are easy to ruin as well. Treat her like a special horse (in all the varying definitions!) and that's what you'll get.
     
  7. MidnightHill

    MidnightHill New Member

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    This fillys dam most certainly is a textbook Frohwind horse then! She certainly has an air about her :D She is a very bold horse who believes she is queen to humans and equines. :D

    The filly has been fun for sure. A complete learning experience for me since I have grown up handling quarter horses and thoroughbreds. She is extremely immature (which I expected) and she must be tricked into thinking that everything is her idea (which is fine - it just makes you think a little harder). She has a half brother by Feinbrand who is currently starting to event....I believe he is 7 years old - and just starting to come into his own.

    I have noticed she bonds with certain people - her owner (aka the treat lady), myself, and my 15 year old cousin who adores her(and she adores him). She likes to turn the lights on in the barn, take her water bucket off the hanger, and fling things around the arena when she is let out. She has quite the personality...to say the least. However - once she understands something she has it in her head forever.

    Needless to say she is fun and I look forward to seeing how she turns out.
     
  8. JenR

    JenR Formerly Underworld Queen

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    :D

    Welcome to a bit of my world then! Al is quite the character, to say the least -- definitely likes playing with toys (he's been known to chase the other horses around a pasture with a stick -- the GSD loves him) and not the most mature acting horse.

    A trainer I know who does pretty well with warmbloods summed it up best: sometimes you have to take the attitude of (on first meeting one) going up and punching them in the nose (not literally of course) and then giving them a hug and telling them how absolutely wonderful they are :D
     
  9. burgie

    burgie New Member

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    I ^.^.^ that saying!
    How true!
     
  10. Gruce

    Gruce New Member

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    MH- I saw that pic in dressage today this month.....congrats!! :th_appl:
     
  11. MidnightHill

    MidnightHill New Member

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    Thanks! It was a suprise to see it in the magazine - now if only they could have waited to run it when the horses were slick instead of wooly mamouths!
     
  12. Rolling Green EC

    Rolling Green EC New Member

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    I admitedly know not very much about bloodlines, but I love finding out about them! Know anything about my guy? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sauter+de+joie

    Now that he's almost 7, he's very quiet and steadfast, almost to the point of being lazy. He'd much rather coffee clutch than work. All years prior to that he was a hellion who refused to listen and just wanted to do what he wanted to do. He finally grew a brain ;D When you make him decide that he wants to actually *work* instead of just going through the motions, he's willing but very strong, definately uses his size to his advantage. He takes good care of me, and I get along great with him, but I've had trainers show him for me and say that he was one of the toughest (physically demanding) rides that they've had in a long time. I wouldn't trade him for the world though; he's affectionate and has a great sense of humor.
     
  13. JenR

    JenR Formerly Underworld Queen

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    Inschallah was a lovely horse, and I like that line -- I've owned a couple of horses with Inschallah up very close in the pedigree and worked with a few more, and would take on one again. The ones I have seen -- the Inschallah puts a kind nature on them usually. A lot of them make nice dressage horses that can jump, and if they don't move well enough for dressage they make cute hunters. They have become not the "superstars", but a nice outcross line for the super athletic horses who may not have the best minds.

    Alme/Galoubet -- those are jumpers, jumpers, jumpers; not bad horses but a bit self willed and can be tough from the ones I know. Not evil, not super spastic, just a bit tough. Very athletic -- they can jump.


    In Reality -- this is one of the best TB lines imo, for a sport/riding horse. Love them! In fact, this is one of my favorite horses to see in any pedigree (if I was going to list names of horses I'd like to see in a pedigree, that I'd be tempted to have just for the pedigree, In Reality is one of them, and so is Inschallah). Nice eventers out of this line.

    Kirkes went back to Rantzau, and what little I know of horses with Rantzau, he passed along strongly -- they can be a bit hot and wilful. Kirkes horses can move and they can jump too, but I think they're better aimed for jumping breeding programs -- there are other lines that have eclipsed this one in the dressage arena.

    The bottom of that pedigree is not something I know of but goes back to Sickle and Phalaris -- pretty standard issue TB, but not known for any exceptional riding horse qualities.

    From the look of that pedigree, I would say the breeder was going for an athletic horse, geared towards jumping, but capable of doing other things as well. And was trying to temper the temperment.

    I'd also say, that with Inschallah, Alme, Kirkes in there -- you're looking at a very big horse (not just height), not really a "ladies horse"; I could see where that would be a mighty tough ride, and not in the sense of being particularly downhill, heavy, or hard pulling, just not a "ladies horse" -- better be in shape for that one.