Winner of the All American Futurity DQ'd

Discussion in 'The Winners Circle' started by photofinish, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. photofinish

    photofinish Senior Member

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    Well, the owner and trainer have been fighting it, but Stoli's Winner (winner if the 2008 All American Futurity, QH racings richest race) has been DQ'd for a caffeine positive! The connections are appealing, but they can't win. A positive is a positive is a positive. Trainer got a $1500 fine and a 6 month suspension. NM Racing Commission is gonna play hell getting that $1million purse back, I'll betcha! I feel sorry for the connections of the place horse - they got moved up to 1st (they tested clean - every horse who runs in the All American gets tested) and who knows when they will get the rest of their money?

    Why aren't all the damn activists houndng the QH racing folks now? They'd have been marching, mugging for the cameras, preaching about all us "horrible trainers" if it had been a KY Derby winner, hell any state's Derby winner..... *sigh*
     
  2. glf01

    glf01 New Member

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    The press loves to give Tb racing a black eye for every little sneeze that happens. Quarter Horse racing doesn't get the same amount of press. A million dollar purse is a million dollar purse no matter if it's quarters or TB's. I wish the Friends of Barbaro people would attend a few mornings and afternoons at a quarter horse trainers barn. They would really loose it and maybe ease up on us TB people. Heck I have seen some of the ways show horses are treated to get them to do things they need to do. Like saddlebreds with there platform feet and broken tails.
     

  3. lori

    lori New Member

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    Most people don't even know QH racing exists... of course they get almost no bad press.

    OK, tell me bout this caffiene thing? What is a brand name or whats it commonly called? (OK, who is going to be the smarass and say coffee here?)
     
  4. photofinish

    photofinish Senior Member

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    Oh Lori, you are SO leaving yourself open here.....lol

    Actually, Heath Taylor could've given the horse coffee, a MT Dew, Coca-Cola, etc... Even chocolate has some caffeine and will test, but I'm not sure of the ppm (parts per million) a Hershey bar would get ya, though it's always scared me w/ the runners who will eat junk food. The trainer and owner are trying to claim that they are pure as the driven snow ( they are not) and it must be an environmental contaminant...Main problem with THAT scenario is that their ppm was to damn big for a simple contaminant. NM is a zero tolerance state on caffeine (stimulant properties), but, for example, LA allows 25 ppm in blood work to clear (ie"environmental contaminant). Stoli's Winner was almost double that level at 45.5 ppm, so, as an excuse, that dog wont hunt. They'll fight it and tie it up for awhile, but every test and every expert has said simply that all the samples have read the exact came and it all boils down to "trainer responsibility". They just don't wanna give that $1million share of the purse back! ;)
     
  5. lori

    lori New Member

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    Hm, dang I hoped it was a latest greatest product or something. I mean, in addition to Mountain Dew, chocolate, etc. Does he have more in his system than consuming something like that would give him? He does, doesn't he?

    Next summer I may be riding this horse... let's just say I can't beat him enough he's such a slug, though perfectly capable. I don't get tested but I don't want to get too extreme with what I do...
     
  6. photofinish

    photofinish Senior Member

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    Ok, I am going to put on my bullet proof vest and say :

    If he's a lazy bum and you don't get tested, use 5cc of Winstrol (IM)(stanizol) a couple weeks apart or once a month. Winstrol is less likely than Equipoise (durabolin) to make him think he got his balls back. Should put a managable zip in his step. If you don't see a result after 5 or 6 days, you can come back in a week with another 3 cc. Horses don;t get " 'roid rage", though he may get too high and you will have to wait that out a few weeks, then adjust your dosage accordingly. Winstrol would be the safest (YES, safest) stimulant I could offer. Caffeine can be dicey in it's effects, length of effect, etc and giving him a couple Cokes or candy bars could mess w/ his gut and colic him. Winstrol.

    I am going run hide now....
     
  7. desederada

    desederada New Member

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    You should, run and hide that is. Why not just try adding some oats to his ration and a good supplement to pick him up a bit.
     
  8. lori

    lori New Member

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    Oats??? Isn't corn supposed to be what makes them hot and oats not? He is just too cool for his job now that he's a teenager and wise enough not to get wound over another dumb barrel race. The alternative is pass him off to some kid but he's capable and I want him.

    We did have him on a little something over the summer, now I can't remember what it was, a vitamin e supplement? It might have helped, but just a twinge. But we were also sprinting him as part of his workouts... too many variables and still not enough fire.

    Plenty of people put them on Winstrol, not sure if I want to be like them or not yet...
     
  9. desederada

    desederada New Member

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    What is it that you do with the horse anyway? Why not enjoy him for who he is or find another horse that is suitable?
     
  10. lori

    lori New Member

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    He is is a barrel horse who is usually the 5th fastest if they pay 4 places. Or the 13th fastest if they pay 12th places. It is not a pain issue, he's moves well and we've had him double checked by vets and chiro. I believe he is fully capable but needs to be a little bit on a sugar rush for competition. He'll turn it on and get excited and run like he ought to at big shows in certain arenas but regular shows--no.
     
  11. desederada

    desederada New Member

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    Seriously I've never seen a horse become a better horse because he thought he had balls. Usually having balls or thinking they have balls will only make a horse STUPID.
    As for corn I don't like feeding it but if you can be sure it doesn't have aphlytoxin (sp) a small amount won't hurt him and it would certainly pick him up a bit. Have you ever fed the Finish Line Ultra Fire? It's a vitamin B based supplement that will certainly fire one up and won't make him think he has balls. http://www.finishlinehorse.com/product/ultra-fire.asp
     
  12. glf01

    glf01 New Member

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    your stuck on the word balls is that the only thing you took away from that post. Winstrol will only give him the boost that a stud horse gets from those Balls. He will not think has Balls it will only lift his spirits. I'm in the same boat with a Tb at the track has ability but he has learned how to only apply it when he feels like it. There is nothing wrong physically wrong with him. I'm going to try Body Builder and Lixitinic to get him built up we can't use Winstrol on the track but there is other things out there.
     
  13. lori

    lori New Member

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    This is what Shannon "donated" to my cause last summer. I think it did help some... we were also sprinting him to try to get him to think hot. But it's not enough. Then he is slightly alert going into the arena, instead of peanut rolling. (Punk ass horse, no idea where he got the idea to walk in with his nose on the ground, I'll have to see if I have video of it.)

    The other thing is that he's a real easy keeper. The summers where he gets rode 4-6 miles almost every day he gets in good shape, and no, I wouldn't expect top performance if he's carrying extra weight--but even when he's in good shape and well conditioned it's only there like 2 weekends out of the year.
     
  14. desederada

    desederada New Member

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    We've had enough horses come thru here for training that were on the Winstrol that I know how stupid they act when they come here and how much BETTER of a horse they are once they are off of it. I was only making a point. It just makes them stupid.
     
  15. photofinish

    photofinish Senior Member

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    OK, for the record, winstrol is not "liquid balls". That is Equipoise or occasionally nandrolone or plain ol' injectable testosterone. Winstrol was originally developed to help horses rebuild muscle and development post-surgically. Winstrol may pick 'em up but it is NOT a testosterone derivative. Again, I will say, if you accept that horses and people are very different metabolically and look into alot of the research done on steroid use (use, not abuse) in horses steroids have very little long term effects and horses don't get "roid rage" or tiny testicles, males don't develop bags, it is very different. They also don;t affect each horse the same. I would say Winstrol has NO noticeable effect on 40% of horses. It is the preferred anabolic for fillies because (unlike Equipoise) it will not give you a "stud filly" effect and clears their reproductive system sooner (ie filly gets hurt and goes to get bred, Winstrol filly will cycle normally in 2-6 months, Equipoise filly may not develop good follicles for a year or more).

    While some people have abused steroids in horses (hell, some people abuse Bute!) most don;t because abuse has negative affects. The only reason steroid use has become an issue at all is because, after the human sports debacles, it is something the public recognizes. It is something to trot out for John Q Cityboy who cannot comprehend poor breeding practices, surface issues, and the myriad things that go into the making (and breaking, sadly) of a racehorse
     
  16. middleageddebutante

    middleageddebutante New Member

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    In all seriousness, Lori, there are usually four reasons why a horse will not run when you know they can: Condition, diet, pain or attitude (or a combination of any of them). LOL

    I have a horse in the barn right now that has two All American Futurity winners on his papers - one on the top and one on the bottom. The SOB can run like his ass is on fire. I have seen him do it. But it has been hell getting that kind of motivation out of him under saddle. He is LAZY, LAZY, LAZY unless the mood strikes him. At first, I had him vet checked to make sure there was no pain issues. Then addressed his condition - got him in excellent shape. Still no run in him under saddle. Changed him to a low carb, higher fat diet with high quality protein hay and free choice minerals to get optimized energy utilization. Still no run in him under saddle. Worked on his attitude, trying to figure out some motivation for him. Now, some days he will run, some days he will not. It is all in his attitude. However, I do not believe in "hyping" up a barrel horse to try to get it to run.

    I'd address the reasons that might be hindering the horse first before going for "gimicks". But that is just me. :)
     
  17. JenR

    JenR Formerly Underworld Queen

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    I don't think this post was an commentary on "oh, you MUST put your horse on xyz Lori", it was a comment on what some people are using on their horses to get some zip in them. In fact, I think it started out as a post on the All American winner.

    I don't know if there was any condoning of drug use going on here.

    As for using extra corn -- it makes them glossy (due to the oil content), but I've never found it to make a horse any hotter than oats (now Tiz Whiz I've seen make them silly, but I think that's due to the energy ratio in the stuff, which may very well be what's going on corn vs. oats).

    I don't think shoveling feed at them is always the answer anyway (would that it were so!) -- would that were so, but it's more complicated than that. Just like there is no magic elixir to give them either. (would that it were so).

    As for "just enjoying a horse for what he/she/it is" -- that's a personal decision. And competition changes the landscape of that a lot. If this was the case, there are a lot of horses out there who wouldn't be doing much of anything ;)
     
  18. desederada

    desederada New Member

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    WTF then fill him full of all the shit you can since they aren't testing and it really doesn't matter because winning is the only issue.
     
  19. JenR

    JenR Formerly Underworld Queen

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    I don't think that was Lori's stance either.
     
  20. Peggy Sue

    Peggy Sue New Member

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    Lori if you are running an of the BHA"S they can test at any time...

    Add him a couple 2 or 3 lbs of oats a day and see if that helps... oats is more of a "safe" sugar/starch load then corn that passes to the hind gut to digest/ferment

    As far as ANY race horse testing postive I think they should be banned from racing FOR LIFE!!!